MB: And you ended saying, “And I think this is the real epiphany: the ways in which culture is distributed become profoundly more intriguing as a cultural artifact itself. What we’ve experienced is an inversion of consumption, one in which we’ve come to prefer the acts of acquisition over that which we are acquiring, the bottles over the wine.” That is a huge shift, right?

KG: Yeah. It’s structuralist really. Actually, you start to think about structuralism . . . Ubu is filled with structuralist films and, of course, they’re all about the process of the film itself, much more than the content that could possibily come into it. So that same ethos goes also for our engagement with language. When we’ve got all of these texts, which begin in ’93 for me flowing into the computer, you begin to become more interested in managing them than you do with traditionally engaging them or even creating more of your own. That becomes a much more pressing cultural practice, so I say now we’ve become word processors, information managers; we are moving information both in the way of moving it from one place to another and also being emotionally moved by that process.

MB: Do you think art can actually still exist in that new environment or is that kind of a legacy that we’re, sort of, shoe-horning into the new situation because a lot of the older structures still require it?

KG: It has to do with market, doesn’t it. I mean, as long as there’s a market for oil painting, I see no reason why oil painting won’t continue to be viable. Oil painting succeeds because the web can’t do it. So does pottery, so traditional crafts become more interesting now to us because that’s something the web can’t do. I don’t know if that will always be the case or if the web will be able to do these things. I think that on many levels that we’re more interested now in the value of the hand; the hand becomes more valuable than less valuable. I think that those kinds of art-making practices are absolutely thriving as an antidote to what most of us live in, which is just ephemeral, digital material.